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Mort Enerichzen's avatar

Why do you think Europe needs immigrants?

Given the numbers you outlined and the way it feels on the streets, I am beginning to think that maybe those calling to keep Muslim immigrants from war torn countries out, might have a point. Especially men of soldiering age.

This is about religious politics that go all the way back to crusades, isn't it?

Given the facts you presented it is hard not to question my liberal attitudes to others.

Garrett's avatar
16hEdited

Seems like an extremely poor post, which is a shame.

At a minimum you should have referenced the US to compare - for the past hundred+ years, immigrants both legal and illegal have been UNDERrepresented in incarceration statistics

https://ranabr.people.stanford.edu/sites/g/files/sbiybj26066/files/media/file/immigration_incarceration_jan2024.pdf

The US comparison for welfare usage - immigrants use far less welfare than native born https://www.cato.org/blog/immigrants-use-less-welfare-native-born-americans

Back to Europe specifically, or more generally, a review of immigration and crime in the OECD. https://pubs.aeaweb.org/doi/pdfplus/10.1257/jep.38.1.181 - No correlation of immigration and crime (where they use homicide as a proxy for crime overall)

I'll quote the paper

>The frequent overrepresentation of incarcerated immigrants relative to overall

population, depicted in Figure 3, might be due to two measurement issues quite

specific to immigration-crime statistics. One is that irregular aliens (that is, those

not officially registered by the appropriate process in that nation) would be counted

in the share of immigrants in the prison population, but not in the share of immigrants in the resident population. The other is the potential harsher treatment of

foreigners by the police and the judiciary system due to discrimination or unequal

access to legal services and noncustodial measures, such as bail or home-detention.

Alone, not enough to explain it all, as they say, but then add in the adjustments by age, education, income, etc and I think you're getting somewhere.

More importantly, you didn't discuss integration or potential biased enforcement of laws at all in your post. Which is a glaring oversight.

I haven't looked it up, but I'd assume the graph which plots "Muslim majority" countries as distinct from "liberal democracies" is from some anti immigration group, because otherwise that's some whacky categorization and should have been an immediate red flag for you

I believe you're too willing to accept "crime isn't about money" too - a small study where people are given a few hundred dollars is not something that people can plan their lives around nor, would I think, likely to stop a criminal from committing crimes. You're accepting something as evidence when it's barely telling us anything, let alone about why people commit crimes or end up living a life of crime

Here's a section of the above OECD paper

>A different policy experiment in Italy involves the online procedure used to

award work permits. Prospective employers of immigrant workers must send an

electronic application on given “Click Days,” starting at 8 AM, and such applications

are processed on a first come–first served basis until available quotas of permits are

exhausted. Exploiting discontinuities in “click time” to compare those just eligible

for work permits to those not eligible, Pinotti (2017) finds that those eligible to

work are significantly less likely to be arrested during the following year. The size

of the effect is very large and remarkably similar, in relative terms, to that estimated

by Mastrobuoni and Pinotti (2015)—a drop of more than 50 percent relative to the

baseline crime rate—in spite of the fact that the two papers focus on very different

populations; that is, former prison inmates and applicants for work permits.

As it turns out, when people want to but can't work, they have no other option than to steal or starve. The EU is full of countries that make it harder than necessary to work as an immigrant, or hell just make it hard to work in general.

And while I'm at it some more sources that you might like

Immigrants in Portugal net contributed to the state 5:1, or in other words, 5 euros paid per euro taken in benefits

https://joaonevesanalytics.substack.com/p/contributory-impact-of-migrants-in#:~:text=2024%3A%20Preliminary%20data%20show%20another,contributions%20in%202024%20rr.pt.

And another for Portugal, areas with more immigrants as a share of population have lower crime rates https://home-affairs.ec.europa.eu/news/portugal-municipalities-more-immigrants-see-less-crime-2024-10-17_en

Really just a very poor post on your part, where you seem to uncritically repost stuff you see floating around on twitter or whatever and don't look into any of the actual research or even give lip service to questioning the source or how reliable it is. If this is what I can expect from you I don't know why I should stay subbed

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